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Population control
#1
Here is something I have suspected for a long time.

To The Global Elite The Math Is Simple: Human Overpopulation Is Causing Climate Change So The Solution To Climate Change Is Population Control
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#2
I just sort of idly followed a few of the links / stories from your post Richard111.
ie,
http://thefinalhour.blogspot.com/2009/05...t-nyc.html

I came across,

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

Who finances such groups. ?
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
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#3
Derek:
The Illuminati of the generation. Usually older wealthy people who thing they know what is best for the world! Paul Erlich, John Holdren,Maurice Strong, and others. I did not follow the links because I have been hearing about this cleansing approach to humanity for years! It is tribalism at its worst!

BTW! If you wish I could provide more about this issue and the history!
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#4
Happy friday!!

OMG, there must be something in the air. I also came across another optimistic website:

http://dieoff.org/
Ni cien conejos hacen un caballo, ni cien conjeturas una evidencia (F. Dostoyevski)
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#5
(06-04-2010, 03:56 PM)Mike Davis Wrote: BTW! If you wish I could provide more about this issue and the history!

Thank you Mike, please do, I think we all need to be more aware of where these people are really apparently trying to go, and why.
I for one have basically "ignored" the lunacy of eugenics, but it seems it is not being ignored by many people who do matter.
A real concern for the rest of us, who do not apparently matter.
ie, We who do not matter are supposedly, "useless eaters" - for goodness sakes.

I wonder if the subject area is large enough for a section in the forum overall.
But that is a decision for SST. I suppose in the mean time "we" can use this thread only, and
if appropriate at a later date split posts off to make up the new forum area.

NB - "Happy Friday" indeed Strogoff. - Great, but disturbing link.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
Reply
#6
strogoff: that Jay Hansen fellow must be a bundle of fun to have around. Sad

I accept I am biased simply because the information I have is insufficient to explain the present world situation. But simply by returning to places in the world that were almost wilderness thirty, fourty, fifty years ago and seeing the changes does have an impact.

One example. In 1948/9 I was living in small military married quarters compound in Malaya. This compound was completely surrounded by jungle. The locals showed us kids how to catch monkeys. Remove the husk from a coconut. make a small hole in the shell, break up some of the inner nut and tie firmly to a tree. Along comes a monkey and puts his hand in the hole to grab some nut, can't get is hand out, BUT HE WILL NOT LET GO! You can figure out the rest.

Anyway, in 1965 I was serving in Singapore and during a break decided to visit the old married quarters site. I eventually found it completely surrounded by highrise buildings. It looked small and tacky. Big mistake to go back.

Then in South Africa I watched the Transkie turn from green to desert over a period of 20 years. Green rolling hills turned into wall to wall rondavelies and oxcart sledges stripping the thin surface so the rains could erode what was left. People, lots and lots of people.

Here in Milford Haven I thought I had found a nice quiet backwater that was similar to the old Cornwall country side. Well, in just 7 years they have built blocks of flats and housing estates with more than a thousand living units but we have just half the number of shops. Tesco is doing allright.

Yesterday when I went to fetch the paper I passed a coffee coloured family, mum, dad, three youngsters, max age possibly 5 years, mum pregnant. Couldn't identify the language they spoke or even guess where they originated. Just another new everyday sight.

Yes, I do believe there is a world population problem. Technology has been the main support for the increase. Simply by removing technology it seems there are factions who believe this will solve the problem.

I was reading yesterday about clashes between foresters and people collecting firewood in SE Europe. The people could no longer afford what energy was available. So it starts, small clashes here and there that will escalate as hungry people are not just going to lie down and die.

There is rampant stupidity in this world.
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#7
Time for me to bowl a cheerful googly.......

Human race get off your knees
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
Reply
#8
Hmm... googly indeed. Should be fun to see David Icke and Jim Hansen interviewing each other.

David Icke
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#9
Thank you Richard111, I found an interesting forum from that link.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
Reply
#10
To put it in simple terms:
There has always been those who think their "Tribe" is the "Chosen" and all others are "Infidels", Scum, Worthless, whatever. There is a saying that history is written by the winners. Now it is a fad to rewrite history in a politically correct manner. Think about the myth that people should learn about their distinct heritage. The entire human race may have started in Africa around the Equator as now they trace humanity back to 6 "Mothers" through DNA! By promoting realization of ethnic roots they are promoting separatism. I realize there is biological evidence of different levels of evolution in different races and the mixing of races has resulted in advancement of all of humanity! Those of you living in the UK are probably a result of Viking mixed with indigenous group that came there from Europe during the Glacial period from what is now France.
It seems the current "Tribalism" is on an economic scale. Those well off individuals want more and the "Middle Class" are getting in the way. The Poor are pets that need to be cared for and used as "Worker" entities to do the bidding or manual labor. There have been those that decided they could control the masses to ther bidding and become part of the elite. I think most thought they were helping their "Tribe" until they found the "Power".
It does not matter whether it is religious, educational, or what ever form of tribalism. I would not blame it on religion itself as that is a means to an end, just like science is a means to an end.
We currently have a number of groups working towards their vision of a "Perfect World". Population Control, Eugenics, Genocide, Planned Parenthood, any number of other names to describe methods when education is the best form of birth control with a proven track record.
These groups appear to promote some of the same goals as long as the direction is towards their eventual goal. When one step is accomplished they will turn on another group to eliminate them. I would not be to concerned because this has been going on since before the start of civilization and will continue until humanity evolves mentally enough to accept that we as a whole are one tribe!

I had one lifestyle when I lived in Las Vegas, Nevada and moved to Eastern Tennessee where I live a different lifestyle by adapting to the local customs. Some come here and attempt to convert the locals to a "Better" more advanced lifestyle. The locals are doing just fine as they are and evolving maybe even better than the "City Folk". There are advantages and disadvantages to technology advances. We have not evolved enough to take advantage of the technology but technology has been the driving force of evolution. Or was evolution the driving force of technology? Either way humanity eventually catches up and pushes forwards. It is all a part of life and living.

Conspiracy theories are part of the "Game" because Conspiracies exist although some times not in the form some claim. Interesting is that some that are claiming others are involved in a conspiracy are using that as a diversion from the conspiracy they are involved in.

One other thing while I am thinking about conspiracies. We have never been in harmony with nature. Nothing is in harmony with nature or there would have been no evolution. This is a war that has been fought one battle at a time and we will not win! However Life can be an exciting and somewhat enjoyable learning experience. Just think you in your own way are contributing to the evolution of humanity by being a part of the human experience.

And here you all probably thought I was going to link to all sorts of conspiracy sites. I will not mention names of groups that I have read about or done consulting for or even researched. The human issue has been sort of a "Hobby" Since school days! One day I asked "Why" and am still learning! The AGW thing is not about "Weather" and it is not about science and that is why I am interested in "IT"!
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#11
Yes, it would be great to have some monckey stew with Icke and Hansen for dinner.

Unfortunately I cannot download the videos right now (connection collapses). Let´s see if tonight/tomorrow I can catch the googly.

Latest years I´ve worked on rural development of a very underpopulated area (4,1 inab/Km2), so there´s always another perspective for the subject. I attended a GMO simposium last month and there was a general complaint about obstruction to develop techniques by greenies and institutions. They are seeking resistance for drought and salinity. Climate change?. NO: deserts are the only places left for cultivation.

There´s a good article in the thread "worthy articles to read" (#37, h/t ajmplanner):

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Ar...axBorn.pdf

Reptilian governance... interesting...
Ni cien conejos hacen un caballo, ni cien conjeturas una evidencia (F. Dostoyevski)
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#12
Mike:
Hear, hear, well said.
It was Isaac Asimov who awakened me to population levels when he claimed population was doubling every 35 years back in the late 50s. He wasn't far wrong. The world population has more than doubled in my lifetime, 2 billion to 6.5 billion in just 70 years.
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#13
Mike, maybe you will enjoy this article:

Leading geneticist Steve Jones says human evolution is over
Ni cien conejos hacen un caballo, ni cien conjeturas una evidencia (F. Dostoyevski)
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#14
For the Hecht article. She appears to be a few years short and seems to have a problem with the planned parenthood organization. Mead was probably used as a figurehead just like Gore and Hansen are now.
I had read that one and while it covers some of the issues others are distorted but we each need to find our own truth based on each ones level of understanding.
I can not tell you what is true only what I think is somewhat true from my experience.

Eugenics started in the Pacific Northwest of the United States in the late 1800s and became the fad among the enlightened ones around the start of the 20th century. Now it continues with new names and refinements by groups that splintered of from the original believers.
Strogoff:
Steve Jones appears to be fixated on a theory about physical mutation and relating that to physical evolution. Interesting theory but somewhat wrong tracked. Physical evolution is a result of adapting to regional environments over time of many generations. With the greater ability to manipulate our immediate environments the need to physically change body structures was made obsolete.
Human evolution at this point in time is mental rather than physical and is evident in the generations. One thing to keep in mind is evolution seems to be two steps forward and one step back on average. Some times it seems we are taking many steps backwards but in the end the overall position will be to advance. Some need to relive the mistakes of the past because they think they know better! However they seem to fall into the same traps.
I do not know if you happened to catch this article I posted on the articles thread. It shows a history of the human reaction to climate changes and sort of fits into the whole elitist thing.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/32396573/Witch...ng-Maunder
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#15
Mike,

I guess that when you talk of origin of eugenics you refer to, for example, this. Early eugenics had more to do with ethnic cleansing than with overpopulation, climate change and depletion of natural resources.

M. Mead´s cubs are now active in, at least, NAS and AAAS, making up some data and hypothesis every week. That´s exactly the game: hypothesis. Maybe in a few months, we´ll have people standarized for their genetic carbon footprint (they have already done it with cattle). And skeptics will have the highest one.

Evolution is something more than body structures. There are subtle changes, both genetic and social, with huge impacts. Some of them, like fertility patterns, are true.

Excuse me, I have to go out. I´ll continue later.
Ni cien conejos hacen un caballo, ni cien conjeturas una evidencia (F. Dostoyevski)
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#16
Actually you are correct about that and the ethnic cleansing is continuing as we speak because my "tribe" is better and based on a better sociatal structure than yours mentality. The overpopulation issue is an offshoot of ethnic cleansing and just another excuse to move ahead with regulations and controls. Animals tend expand to the extent their environment allows. Humans are, some say, the highest evolutionary form of the animal kingdom.
Overpopulation, climate change, and depletion of natural resources are excuses to advance the Ethnic cleansing agenda of certain "Tribes".
I define "Tribes" as social groups drawn together by common beliefs and goals. Historically they were separated by geographical limits. Today we live in a global environment with many tribes contesting for supremacy.
I forgot to add what we told a co-worker that was big on conspiracy theories: If every one in the world is out to get you you are not paranoid! Wink
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#17
Over-population is just another of the scares associated with AGW and the goal of global control. As usual it relies upon big numbers - that the average person cannot readily put into context - and Malthusian theory which is also the basis of Peak Oil and many other scare stories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe

Indeed the Club of Rome base much of their pseudo-religion on Malthus.

Many of the followers of AGW, over-population, Peak Oil, etc are closely associated and many of the prominent drones can be seen as members of groups such as the Club of Rome, Optimum Population Trust http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.aboutus.html, etc.

I've not had a chance to read this paper but I think the link is worth including:
http://www.csiro.au/resources/SEEDPaper19.html

Quote:Turner G. 2008. A Comparison of The Limits to Growth with Thirty Years of Reality. Socio-Economics and the Environment in Discussion (SEED). CSIRO Working Paper Series Number 2008-09. June 2008. ISSN 1834-5638. 52 pp.

The Socio-Economics and the Environment in Discussion CSIRO Working Paper Series aims to bring together environmental socio-economic research from across CSIRO.
Summary

In 1972, the Club of Rome’s infamous report The Limits to Growth (Meadows et al., 1972) presented some challenging scenarios for global sustainability, based on a system dynamics computer model to simulate the interactions of five global economic subsystems, namely: population, food production, industrial production, pollution, and consumption of non-renewable natural resources.

Contrary to popular belief, The Limits to Growth scenarios by the team of analysts from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology did not predict world collapse by the end of the 20th Century.

This paper focuses on a comparison of recently collated historical data for 1970–2000 with scenarios presented in The Limits to Growth. The analysis shows that 30 years of historical data compares favorably with key features of a business-as-usual scenario called the “standard run” scenario, which results in collapse of the global system midway through the 21st Century. The data does not compare well with other scenarios involving comprehensive use of technology or stabilizing behaviour and policies. The results indicate the particular importance of understanding and controlling global pollution.

Note the phrases ‘system dynamics computer model’, 'key features of a business as usual scenario' and ‘does not compare well with other scenarios involving comprehensive use of technology ‘. Have we heard similar elsewhere?

The 'standard run' could not have accounted for technological advances seen since 1972 because most had not been foreseen and nor had the exponential rate of advancement. Therefore it is probable that the the agreement with ‘key features’ is nothing more than coincidence.

Of particular interest is the final sentence where the control of global pollution is highlighted, NOT global population.
While I think of it, if the entire world population could be placed in the state of Texas, it would be no more crowded than many European cities. That would leave the rest of the planet for food production and other activities.

Why is it that people are typically attracted to high population regions? If it had a negative impact we would be programmed to avoid such situations. In the natural world most of the more abundant and successful animals live in large communities. Maybe there is something to learn from them?
"Correlation is NOT Causation"
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#18
QC:
I read London and st5ates the size of Texas for population density the same as Europe. Seeing how I have 72 acres to run around on with 3500 directly behind me that is not populated. It is a mile to the next house to the east and the same to the west. cross the road is one person and she has the same distance on both sides of her due to a lot of vacant land still being held by descendants of people who farmed here that do not want to return but are holding it just in case. The normal family size on a piece of property this size was 15 in the 30s and 40s. Education and technology changed that but most do not trust government and the land is being rehabilitated to again support groups of people. I will explain rehabilitated: by letting the land return to nature the soil is allowed to rebuild because the original owners were not aware of proper farming procedures. Erosion took a lot of top soil but it is returning.
You noticed the use of "Waffle" words and the attempt to rewrite what was written by the Population Bomb Experts. It is sort of like the attempts to rewrite the "Projections" of the AGW crowd and the Waffle words used to pronounce the "Innocence" of the Climatologists. I read Judith Curry at CA yesterday say the "Academic Scientists" have their own methods and they are not familiar with how science is done in the real world. Well not those exact words but that was my impression!
Found it:
Judith Curry
Posted Jun 4, 2010 at 6:15 PM | Permalink | Reply

Steve, here i the issue as i see it. Prior to say 1988, we were all conducting academic science. Once the IPCC began, the needs for science changed into a more regulatory framework. For distinction between academic and regulatory science, see
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/klamat...demic.html

Climate researchers want to influence policy while at the same time apply the standards of academic research. This is where the clash is coming from, and climate researchers can no longer have their cake and eat it too (climategate has been a focusing event for this issue). We need much greater accountability in climate research, but expecting this for research conducted prior to 1990 is fairly futile. We need to formalize this change in the scientific environment for climate research by insisting on accountability in climate research with a similar standard as applied in medical research. The bottom line is that climate research and the institutions that support it have not caught up to its policy relevance, and its high time they did. Climategate has served as a real wake up call, I hope.

From here:
http://climateaudit.org/2010/06/04/losin.../#comments
If you have not read yet!
I think we are seeing about the same thing through separate eyes but reach about the same conclusion. I think history has shown the way because the "Elite" do not accept any as being equal. One will step out of line and the rest will descend unless they see a possible advantage in the situation. So there will always be dissent within the ranks of the elite because each is to greedy to share with anyone else.
Every time I think about this the Song "One Tin Soldier" goes through my head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTKx2f44tDo
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#19
Q_C,

Thanks for bringing Malthus here. Neo-malthusian theory in wikipedia is quite good and the CSIRO article worth reading, but needs some time spare.

Here´s another machiavellian link (they look so nice...):

Quote:Mapping Population and Climate Change

Population Action International´s interactive mapping Web site shows how climate change and population dynamics will change the world over time.

Everybody partying in Texas sounds great. A lot of trouble, perhaps. Maybe people prefer populated areas because of markets, prices, jobs, accessibility to services and facilities... that kind of things.


Mike,

Re: Witches - That is a fascinating approach, although I don´t think that Inquisition´s records correlate better with climate catastrophes than CO2 levels. Or does it?


Derek,

Your googly is not serious. This David Icke man must have been an IPCC AR4 contributor or at least abducted by the ectoplasm of one of them. Thanks for the laugh Big Grin
Ni cien conejos hacen un caballo, ni cien conjeturas una evidencia (F. Dostoyevski)
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#20
Strogoff, my "googlies" are usually humourously intended,
and it was a "usual" googly for me.
- occasionally I share my "time outs" that's all.
Here is another "googly" I found from that one.
They Live - You Tube.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
Reply




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