Never heard of Saul Alinsky ? Yes you have... - Printable Version
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Never heard of Saul Alinsky ? Yes you have... - Derek - 04-10-2011 01:44 PM
I posted this in the main forum sometime ago, but
I think it is so relevant to the politics and tactics employed in the climate science debates it is worth repeating here.
I came across this in my travels this morning.
UPDATE - Unfortunately it appears the video I linked to has been removed.
I have found it difficult to find another video as good,
but this is quite reasonable and informative.
How Obama Applies the Alinsky Rules
Some may not consider this so reasonable, but
Glenn does explain the "bits" of Saul Alinsky that I wanted to highlight.
Glenn Beck on Rules for Radicals
I have to offer a slight correction to Glenn Beck here,
the rule he quotes (quite correctly) is rule 13, not 12.
The description of the tactics to be employed struck several chords to me,
(as I'm sure it will with many here)
regarding various climate change discussions on various forums I have visited.
Saul Alinsky and these tactics are something I was completely unaware of,
but it strikes me now I have seen it being employed many, many times.
Fore warned, is fore armed..
Saul Alinsky's (he wrote the book Rules for Radicals) tactics are,
Do not talk about the facts, but do -
1) Pick the target.
2) Freeze it.
3) Personalise it.
4) Polarise it.
CUT OFF THE SUPPORT NETWORK AND ISOLATE THE TARGET FROM SYMPATHY.
Professor Obama used to lecture about Saul Alinsky and his writings / advocated methods........
I'm not sure if this post is worth repeating elsewhere in the forum,
I thought about the gazebo, or politics section.
I think it something many here would benefit from watching.
I have just come across this rather good song.
No Rules for Radicals
Worth a listen.
RE: Never heard of Saul Alinsky ? Yes you have... - Derek - 04-10-2011 11:51 PM
I must also further quote from Glenn Beck,
because it is one of the first lessons that Sunsettommy impressed upon me when I first joined this forum.
He told me, not to react, no matter what the provocation.
At the time I was being "poked" elsewhere.
Glenn Beck quote from above video linked to on You Tube.
"As long as no one plays into their hands, remember,
their radicals - poke - poke - poke - poke - poke,
they want you to react.
They're setting you up,
don't do it.
They're radicals, not rulers,
they only know how to destroy, not to build.
The truth and common sense they don't understand,
you do, those two things are on your side.
In the end you win, because,
I think it was that other radical who said,
The truth shall set you free. "
RE: Never heard of Saul Alinsky ? Yes you have... - Derek - 04-11-2011 05:17 AM
In a sort of know your enemy sort of way, I hope others here, and visiting
find the below list of Saul Alinsky's tactics as described in his book useful.
Saul Alinsky's power Tactics as he lists them (slightly paraphrased by me) in his book Rules for Radicals,
that apparently is now a listed curriculum book in the USA...
(I take the below as Alinsky's "rules of how to debate climate sceptics on the net".)
In the world of give and take, tactics is the art of how to take and how to give.
Here our concern is with the tactic of taking;
1) Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
2) Never go outside the experience of your people.
3) Wherever possible go outside of the experience of the enemy.
4) Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.
The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule:
5) Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.
It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule.
Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.
6) A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.
7) A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.
8) Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and
utilize all events of the period for your purpose.
9) The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.
10) The major premise for tactics is the development of
operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.
11) If you push a negative hard and deep enough
it will break through into its counterside;
12) The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.
13) Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
In conflict tactics there are certain rules that the organizer should always regard as universalities.
One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and "frozen.”
so that the necessary hostility against the target can be built up.
With this focus comes a polarization. all issues must be polarized if action is to follow.
“He that is not with me is against me” (Luke 11:23).
In the climate science debates on the net,
"Pick the target" and "freeze it" is already done,
you are a skeptic or you are not.
The main "action" of consensus posters appears to be to
further polarize the debates in general, and then ridicule the target,
in the hope of reaction.
• The real action is in the enemy’s reaction.
• The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.
• Tactics, like organization, like life, require that you move with the action.
Furthermore I think it worth noting that
in describing the first 12 rules listed above Alinsky's book covers pages 213 to 219. 6 pages.
In describing rule 13 alone, Alinsky's book covers pages 219 to 228. 9 pages.
Quite plainly the modus operandi of pro-AGW posters in climate science "discussions" is
employing Saul Alinsky's (power) Tactics, Rule 13 and Rule 5 as intentionally negative debating tactics.
This is to avoid discussing the facts, and to get you (the enemy) to react, from which they can benefit.
RE: Never heard of Saul Alinsky ? Yes you have... - Derek - 08-08-2011 11:28 PM
I posted this elsewhere, but it should really also be posted here.
SAUL ALINSKY AND BARACK OBAMA HOW A RADICAL WILL RULE
Obama's mentor is Saul Alinski. Rules for Radicals is Obama's bible.
Whilst doing this I have come across the following 3 videos.
In particular this one, from which I take.
I will not be herded.
These 3 videos have, to my mind, many echoes and explanations to several recent threads in what is called Derek's forum at GWS,
but which it has recently become apparent is NOT Derek's forum at all
in the way it was originally agreed to be, in my understanding.....
" Mark Levin compares and contrast the principle teachings of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" and the Mantra and strategy of Obama's campaign and LIFE! "
Mark Levin - Oct 14th - Alinsky's Rules for Radicals (Part 1 of 3)
"there's a reason for it, reformation before revolution"
Mark Levin - Oct 14th - Alinsky's Rules for Radicals (Part 2
" teach the middle class to hate society "
I can not seem to find the third part of this Mark Levin show / video in three parts.
If anyone can find it, please post it here for me - thanks in advance.
" Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical:
from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know
where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which),
the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and
did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom
— Lucifer. "
I do have a pdf copy of THAT horrid little book, so
if anyone is interested in reading it please just pm me with an email address.
As Glen Beck has said it is on several US academic courses as "core reading"...
Sick, very, very sick.
RE: Never heard of Saul Alinsky ? Yes you have... - Russell Cook - 08-09-2012 12:42 PM
(04-10-2011 01:44 PM)Derek Wrote: ... Do not talk about the facts, but do -
No less than exactly what the 'big coal & oil corruption' accusation against skeptic climate scientists is all about. The target (Fred Singer et. al) was picked, frozen, personalized and polarized back at the start, and our mainstream media friends are doing their level best to make certain the skeptics remain isolated from the public.
As blogger Tom Nelson helps me publicize, James Hansen appeared on the PBS NewsHour absent of any skeptic rebuttal, and when I asked the segment host for an explanation, he could not give one that meets the plausibility test: "One Order of James Hansen, with everything. Hold the Skeptics."