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+-- Forum: Our Blue Marble (/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Science (/forum-27.html)
+--- Thread: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work (/thread-354.html)
Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work - ajmplanner - 12-01-2009 02:54 PM
Dr, Peter Landesman, expert in solving the kinds of complex equations Climate Models use, explains why these equations, and therefore the models, can't possibly be used to predict the future .
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/the_mathematics_of_global_warm.html
RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work - HarpoSpoke - 12-02-2009 04:38 AM
Thanks ajmplanner.
RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work - blouis79 - 01-17-2010 02:34 PM
Agree the math of climate models (General Circulation Models) is presently broken. That doesn't mean they can't be fixed over time. Curious to know what data and forumulae have been put in the models to date. Haven't seen anyone much writing about that yet.
Wikipedia article on climate models has links to several, some downloadable.
Even IPCC commented that GCMs should be exercised on weather prediction. Funny that the warmists say weather prediction is beneath them.
RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work - Sunsettommy - 01-17-2010 02:48 PM
(01-17-2010 02:34 PM)blouis79 Wrote: Agree the math of climate models (General Circulation Models) is presently broken. That doesn't mean they can't be fixed over time. Curious to know what data and forumulae have been put in the models to date. Haven't seen anyone much writing about that yet.
Wikipedia article on climate models has links to several, some downloadable.
Even IPCC commented that GCMs should be exercised on weather prediction. Funny that the warmists say weather prediction is beneath them.
I would think they will learn to discern future trends in a general way,but I am not confident they will be able to overcome the inherent chaotic patterns of the climate that weather is spawned from.
RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work - blouis79 - 01-18-2010 07:51 AM
The Comunity Climate System Model is open sourced with fully downloadable input data and code.
I am having trouble finding a description of what maths/physics is encoded in the model....
Theoretically, it could be run on a distributed grid of computers so organised individuals can have a play with inputs and see outputs.
RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work - Derek - 01-20-2010 03:39 PM
(01-18-2010 07:51 AM)blouis79 Wrote: The Comunity Climate System Model is open sourced with fully downloadable input data and code.
I am having trouble finding a description of what maths/physics is encoded in the model....
No surprises there then.
I think my understanding of what is modelled will be quite close to the models you mention...........
RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work - blouis79 - 01-22-2010 02:41 PM
Even NASA Model E is fully downloadable code and data but once again hard to find a clear description of what it is.
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/modelE/
http://climateprediction.net/ is using grid computing to run model simulations - many experiments in the works.
RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work - blouis79 - 01-27-2010 02:23 AM
This paper on superparameterized cloud models has a clear description of the physics formulae.
Also mentions how it is computationally infeasible to run the global cloud model with sufficient resolution to get an accurate idea of cloud feedback.
ftp://eos.atmos.washington.edu/pub/breth/papers/2009/SPCAM-LowCldSens-CRM-JAMES.pdf
RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work - Sunsettommy - 01-29-2010 07:23 AM
The problem with all these modeling runs is how to verify it.