RE: [split]Photons and MASS in calculations...Split from CO2 home experiment thread.
Richard111 am I correct in thinking that you based a lot of the reasoning of your calculation upon the further below quoted post in this thread?
http://www.globalwarmingskeptics.info/fo...1071.html
What is a Watt???
If so, please would you expand specifically.
I am interested for 2 reasons,
a) Water is a liquid, so emits IR at specific frequencies, although this may not effect power of IR emitted I admit..
ie, http://www.globalwarmingskeptics.info/fo...efrigerant
and,
b) How much of the MASS of the water surface is emitting IR? Are you assuming all because of the below, or none?
In other words, are you treating the water surface as a solid and perfect black body?
The facts that water is liquid, and a grey body may effect your sums, and quite considerably...
(01242011 07:31 PM)Richard T. Fowler Wrote: A FEW EQUATIONS
Equation #1. Watts = "joules per second" = "power".
This is a rate of INTRODUCTION of energy into a certain defined volume of space. (Or, conversely, a rate of its REMOVAL from such a volume.)
To introduce energy into a defined volume of space from outside that defined volume, the energy has to EITHER pass through the boundary of the volume, OR be created within that volume.
For problems that involve only the transport of existing energy, the only introduction of energy is by its passing through the boundary of the volume from outside the volume.
Since the boundary consists of a finite, positive number of planes, the entire boundary has an outer surface area S[a] that can be likened to a single plane of the same area S[a] on ONE of its sides.
Equation #2.
"Watts per square meter" = ["joules per second" per square meter] = "density of power".
Equation #3.
Joules = "energy".
Equation #4.
"Joules per CUBIC meter" = "density of energy".
THOUGHTS ABOUT THESE EQUATIONS
"Density of energy" contains a reference to "Cubic" rather than "Square" because ... why??
Because a joule has a nonzero volume and thus cannot exist within/on a planar surface.
"Density of power" contains a reference to "Square" rather than "Cubic" because when we are not considering newly created energy, power (for example, a watt) has a ZERO volume and thus cannot exist OUTSIDE of a planar surface.
Question: Based on the above truths, can one introduce "energy" into a defined volume of space, from outside that defined volume, in 0 (zero) seconds of time? No, it takes time, because ... why??
Because the energy (joules, or joule, or fraction of a joule) has to be moved through space in order to introduce it into a defined volume of space.
If it could happen instantaneously, then by definition, there would be no space between the starting point and the ending point of the energy. Consequently, the starting point would by definition be part of the defined volume, a reality which we have already specified by definition NOT to be true. Therefore, the answer to the question is "No."
CONCLUSIONS TO BE DRAWN FROM THE ABOVE
Conclusion #1:
A plane (whether flat or curved) can constitute a defined volume of space, but it cannot constitute a NONZERO defined volume. The volume of a plane must, by definition, be zero. Saying it has a volume but the volume is "zero" has the same effect as saying it has "no volume"; thus, we can see that a plane can simultaneously have "a volume" and "no volume", because the word "volume" can mean two different things simultaneously. But at no time can a plane have a nonzero volume.
Conclusion #2:
Units of "Energy" (i.e. just joules, without any spatial reference) are a measurement of a specific amount of energy which exists in a NONSPECIFIC, NONZERO volume of space, such that, by "nonspecific", we mean that the expression of the amount of space containing the specified energy is capable of variation, without affecting the total amount of energy being specified.
Conclusion #3:
Units of "density of energy" are a measurement of a specific amount OR AN AVERAGE AMOUNT of energy which exists in a SPECIFIC nonzero volume of space, such that, by "specific . . . volume of space" we mean "not capable of variation in its volume".
Conclusion #4:
Based on Conclusion #3,
 If a specific amount of energy A[e] exists within an UNFIXED, nonzero space named N, and
 if A[e] constitutes the entire energy within N at any time, and
 if N is redefined to include a larger volume than it did before the redefinition, and
 if N is thereby enlarged without allowing any of the energy A[e] to exit N either before or after the redefinition, and
 if the space that is added to N by the redefinition contained no energy prior to the instant of the redefinition, and
 if no energy crosses into N from outside of N at any time,
THEN: the value of A[e] (the total amount of energy within N at any time) is unchanged during the redefinition, and the expression of the density of energy of N DECREASES at the time of redefinition.
Conclusion #5:
A given rate of power can EXIST for a NONZERO volume of 3dimensional space, but only for a ZERO length of time.
Conclusion #6:
A given rate of power can PERSIST for a NONZERO length of time, but only where the power is CONSTANT throughout that entire length of time.
Such an expression of persistent power could (but does not necessarily HAVE to) constitute an AVERAGE power, i.e. an AVERAGE rate of energy INTRODUCTION per unit of time, OVER a certain TOTAL period of time.
(Such total period for which the average is expressed can be of KNOWN or UNKNOWN length, and need not be equal to 1 of the specified unit of time in the denominator of the rate.)
Conclusion #7:
Within 3dimensional space, a quantity of energy can only exist along ALL THREE dimensions of space, AND either 1) the dimension of time AND a timeless dimension of intensity ("density of power"); OR 2) a timecontaining dimension of intensity ("density of energy").
Conclusion #8:
Density of energy for a given region of space can be calculated using only the energy that exists within the defined space at the start of the time for which energy is measured; OR just the energy that is introduced/removed DURING the time for which energy is measured; OR the combination of the first two quantities.
Conclusion #9:
Based on Conclusion #7, for a given, fixed, nonzero volume of space AND a given density of power, energy varies directly with time.
Conclusion #10:
Based on Conclusion #7, for a given, fixed nonzero volume of space AND a given OVERALL power, energy varies directly with time.
Conclusion #11:
Based on Conclusion #7, for a given, fixed, nonzero volume of space, a given OVERALL power, AND a given density of ENERGY, overall energy varies directly with time. QUESTION: "RTF, how can density of energy be constant, while overall energy is variable?" Aha, the answer is ........ when your "density of energy" is an AVERAGE density of energy OVER a period of time!
RTF
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken.
The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
