P/4 - Why it is THE issue that destroys GH and AGW.

[Climate Realist]

Derek, I'm surprised you disagree with Claes Johnson's approach as this is firmly rooted in thermodynamics and my ideas are firmly rooted in the way that atoms and molecules interact with IR radiation. These are the ways by which the GHE theory is demolished.

What do you disagree with? Joe Posthma for example likes my ideas.

BTW, I have changed my post to "may" drop out.

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EDIT- JUST FOLLOWED YOUR LINK.

"UPDATE: Ids poll answers -

Question 1 – Would a minus 180 C block of ice the size of the moon and in lunar orbit warm or cool the Earth.

Ids Answer – It would warm the Earth. No matter what you assumed the definition of lunar orbit to mean for the majority of the time, the ice chunk would find itself blocking a view of the blackness of space at 3K or minus 270C. In place of that minus 270C radiation which continually strikes the earth, a small section of the sky has a hotter, brighter minus 180C emission. Therefore – the Earth Warms.

Question 2 – Would it warm the Sun.

Ids Answer – It would warm the Sun for the same reasons as above. The tiny little pinpoint in the distance would probably add as much as a distant star, but it would add a little and that is all it takes.

Now, if you get all caught up in how much and could it be measured etc. etc. and so on, you are probably lousy at story problems. The answers are actually quite simple. It will be interesting to learn where I am wrong in the inevitable follow up comments"

Sorry, but what a load of rubbish! That does not "prove" the GHE at all. Cold cannot heat warm, if the moon were at -180C then it would be cooler than it is now and would reflect less radiation back to the earth, therefore a cooler moon would cool the earth. However, a moon at -180C could not warm the earth as it is colder than the earth.

It is nonsense because of my explanation that a -180C moon is emitting radiation that cannot possibly warm a 15C (or -18C etc) temp earth because the matter of the earth is in higher energy state and is ALREADY emitting radiation at this wavelength that corresponds to this temperature and higher. Therefore the radiation from -180C moon cannot excite the atoms and molecules on the earth because they are already at this state of excitation and higher. Therefore the energy states of the bonds and electrons that correspond to -180C are already occupied- the earths matter cannot be excited by this radiation and therefore cannot be warmed by this radiation and the Lunar -180C radiation will merely be scattered back to the moon and to outer space.

Thermodynamics is the mathematical expression of what happens (does not happen in this case) and my paragraph above explains WHY it cannot happen (cold heating warm) on the molecular and atomic scale with radiation and energy states of electrons and bond orbitals.

I may post this of Jeff ID's site.

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However this Jeff ID thread has nothing to do with P/4 and computer climate models!

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EDIT- now posted on Jeff ID's site.