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Milford Haven weather
#1
I stopped looking at this site because it was off line for months. I looked in today out of curiosity and what a surprise!

Look at the Solar Reading at the bottom of the page. Right now 983 WATTS PER METRE SQUARED ! ! ! at 13:36.

Argg... help, I'm cooking!

http://www.milfordweather.org.uk/
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#2
Yee goodness me Richard111,
983W/m2 = 89.71C........Surface temperature I hasten to add.
What near surface air temperature did they report?

Maybe "they" forgot to divide P by 4..........Angel

Arrr, of course, I forgot surface albedo.....You polish (everything) a lot in Milford Haven I assume.
:ninja:
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
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#3
My thermometer, in the shade, read 14.8C, same as shown on the weather site at that time.
Anyway I told my wife how hot it was and she said to try out the solar cooker. My own verdict was no-no as there was a fair bit of high hazy cloud around. From past experience I know it would have been a failure but I did want to test the double glazing I'd fitted. So I set the cooker up and popped in a bit of mild steel plate that weighed about 3kg and awaited events. The internal temperature climbed slowly through out the afternoon and by 6pm reached 90C which was not bad. By 7pm there was a definite drop in temperature inside the box so I packed up. The plate was too hot to touch!!! So I think I could have had a successful cook out if I had started earlier in the day.

That Solar Reading data is the first I've seen anywhere so will keep an eye on it. Right now, 9:15pm, still daylight, sun about three diameters above the horizon and the reading is 40W/m^2.

Since over head cloud affects me at the same time I'm going to try and record a few readings over the next week or so.
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#4
Did you see this excerpt Richard111 from post 51 in this thread?

Excerpt,
" You could ignore the above, and just go outside and measure the strength of solar incoming P, with an appropriate meter / instrument.
Then for the surface being considered, measure it's albedo.
Calculate using the W/m2 figure left, using the above equation.
This will give a maximum possible surface temperature for incoming solar radiation ONLY received at the earth's surface.

Comparing both of the above methods should give the same answer.

I guarantee that, barring geothermal heat (or human, fire, etc) inputs,
the surface temperature you would actually measure WILL ALWAYS BE LOWER than
the possible maximum for the solar input received ONLY at the earth's surface on the lit side of the planet.

This is THE problem, the failed GH hypothesis and AGW says that the earth's surface temperature will be higher than that of solar input ONLY,
(please see first figure in this post)
because of "back radiation" surface heating.


Current reading - Friday 24th June 7.20 am
[Image: md_met.jpg]

Looks like I will have to qualify,
" I guarantee that, barring geothermal heat (or human, fire, etc) inputs,
the surface temperature you would actually measure WILL ALWAYS BE LOWER than
the possible maximum for the solar input received ONLY at the earth's surface on the lit side of the planet.
"

148.4 W/m2 = MINUS 46.97C
Are early mornings that cold in Milford Haven - I thought not.

This is good, it might be worth remembering that 391W/m2 = 15.02C
and that 1000W/m2 = 91.27C.....
http://www.milfordweather.org.uk/solar.php
[Image: md_solar.png]

Richard111, is it possible to get the W/m2 solar figures, and the near surface air temperature figures please,
I could convert solar W/m2 to maximum surface temperature for received solar input, and then
plot them with near surface air temperature as the station records.
http://www.milfordweather.org.uk/atmospheric.php
The only "sticking point" is what is the surface albedo?
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
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#5
Smile At 07:00am the shade temperature on the north side of my house was 10C. It is now 08:40am and the temp is 11C. Lot of high haze cloud but is clearing fast. Looks like it could be a nice day. Mind you BBC forecast heavy rain for this afternoon. As for albedo; look in google earth, I think the sensors are on a mast on the east side of the harbour entrance within ten feet of pier edge. Lot of sea water all around. I wonder if that sensor is measuring reflection plus incoming?
Will take a walk down to the harbour later and ask a few discrete questions. I did try last year and got short shrift! Rolleyes

edit: I was out in the garden most of yesterday afternoon and the maximum shade temperature was 15C, way lower than the solar reading.
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#6
Good luck with the "sleuthing" Richard111.

Any chance of photos of the sensors and location please (close up, and general setting).

[Image: md_met246119-48.jpg]

I will, in the mean time, be asking elsewhere regarding emissivity...
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
Reply
#7
Made it down to the harbour this afternoon. As long as I kept away from the Fish Festival I wan't charged. I have detuned the pictures to reduce bandwidth. Light wasn'y too good. No confirmation that this is the sensor tower but it sure looks like it. More experienced people can judge. Haven't a clue what the very top device is. Man in the office said the weather page web site is run by some company they comunicate with only by email. He couldn't tell me the address. Come in Monday he said. Rolleyes

[Image: mast1.jpg]

[Image: mast2.jpg]

[Image: mast3.jpg]

Location of tower on google earth is 54deg42'33.91"N 5deg02'16.12"W. You can only see the shadow of the tower if you look very carefully.
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#8
I had a request for temperature readings from my home thermometer but I'm not on line often enough to make it worth while. My thermometer sits on the kitchen window sill on a north facing wall and at this time of year, still close to summer solstice, I have to rescue the thermometer before the sun blows it. Wink

For alternate Milford Haven weather information, provided for local shipping, have a look at the LOCAL WEATHER UPDATE which also records humidity and windchill etc.
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#9
My apologies Richard111, other things have intervened, but I will be back to this important thread.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
Reply
#10
[Image: solar02-07-11.jpg]

Above are the solar readings from Sunday 26th June to Saturday 2nd July 2011. My reason for posting this is to point out the effect of clouds on the level of incoming energy from the sun. That downward spike at about 12:25pm on Saturday 2nd July (top trace) was caused a by a single well defined cloud passing over Milford Haven harbour. I saw the cloud and the effect on the solar trace which got me thinking. The rest of the squiggles from 2 o'clock onwards are from smaller, more scattered, clouds passing by. You will see that from Monday to Friday there was scattered cloud over Milford Haven each day and most on Thursday.

Sunday 26th June you can see was a cloudless day apart from some small high cirrus around midday. Notice the peak is less than for any day of the rest of the week!

That reduced peak must have been due to water vapour. I remember it was a slightly hazy day but failed to take note of the humidity.

Looking at the Atmospheric Absorption Bands I see at least six bands of water vapour and two bands of carbon dioxide absorbing what looks like 50% of the near infrared from the sun in the range 0.9microns to 8.0microns.

Now I claim that ALL of that absorbed energy went into heating the atmosphere. NONE OF IT WILL BE BACKRADIATED TO THE SURFACE!

Why? Because Wein's Law tells us that the temperature for peak radiation at 8.0microns will be 362.25K or +89C ! And that is the coolest part of that band I'm talking about. In case you are interested the peak temperature at 0.9microns is 3220K !

Such temperatures are not found in our atmosphere. So there you see a clear indication of reduced energy to the surface caused entirely by "greenhouse" gases. I wonder how this is accounted for in global climate models?

Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#11
A fortuitous post by one Bernie McCune over at WUWT introduced me to a gadget known as a NIP or a Normal Incident Pyrheliometer. You can read about it HERE.
A two page pdf file;
V. DATA HANDLING PROCEDURES shows a picture on page two that makes me feel fairly confident the gadget at Milford Haven is an EppleyNIP.

The only picture of an EpplyNIP I found looks nothing like any gadget on the mast in the pictures above. But it's quite possible the NIP is mounted elsewhere. I must go skulk around the harbour some more and see if I can identify anything that might be a NIP.

Mean time we need to track down just what those solar readings mean and how to translate the data into the real world.
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#12
Lots of interesting information here: Solar radiation basics

If you are interested in the solar readings displayed by the Milford Haven Weather site then I recommend reading the above page.
Written for the layman, not too much math. Wink
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#13
(07-03-2011, 06:03 AM)Richard111 Wrote: Looking at the Atmospheric Absorption Bands I see at least six bands of water vapour and two bands of carbon dioxide absorbing what looks like 50% of the near infrared from the sun in the range 0.9microns to 8.0microns.

Now I claim that ALL of that absorbed energy went into heating the atmosphere. NONE OF IT WILL BE BACKRADIATED TO THE SURFACE!

Seems like someone else has arrived at a similar conclusion.

http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/the-gre...1-Aug-2011

Quote:[b]If people would understand this principle, they would not singularly identify green house gases (GHG's) by pointing at the areas in the 5-20 um region (where earth emits pre-dominantly) but they would also look in the area 0-5 um (where the sun emits pre-dominantly) for possible cooling effects.[b]

There are some links on his site I must follow up.

I am working on the solar readings from the Milford Haven Weather site in an attempt to resolve the apparent over the top W/m^2 readings. The NIP is recording the "beam" but that is not what the surface is seeing and the time element needs to be considered. I think the final "heating" figure over a 12 hour period will look more reasonable.

Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#14
Looks like I need to check out google earth for the location of Milford Haven. Rolleyes I checked on my home map and its about 51.7 degrees north.

What ever, those scary readings from the solar page are misleading. If you read the links above you will note that the NIP is pointed directly at the sun and has a very narrow viewing angle. Therefore a data reading of say 900W/m^2 are in fact reduced by 62.5% because Milford Haven is TILTED with respect to the sun. Not highly polished as Derek suggested. Big Grin

So 900W/m^2 on the scale is actually 562W/m^2 on the ground and then only for an hour or so at the midday peak.

So we can all relax. Milford Haven is NOT burning up. Wink

I should have mentioned I calculated for the summer solstice! We are way past that now as Milford Haven tilts more and more away from the sun. Things are remarkably cool here for August. Feels more like November.
Environmentalism is based on lies and the lies reflect an agenda that regards humanity as the enemy of the Earth. - Alan Caruba
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#15
There is a similar,but less elaborate weather station at my city shops.

It also records solar intensity along with rainfall,temperature and evaporation.

I have been trying to print out a years worth of data for last year.But the printer is not working properly.I have already made this problem known once with the computer guys,two weeks ago.Will have to try again.

Hopefully I will be able to get it all posted here,when it is all fixed.
It is our attitude toward free thought and free expression that will determine our fate. There must be no limit on the range of temperate discussion, no limits on thought. No subject must be taboo. No censor must preside at our assemblies.

–William O. Douglas, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1952
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