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Gail Coomb's comment

Quote: Gail Combs says:
July 25, 2012 at 7:09 am

Chris Wright says: @ July 24, 2012 at 4:05 am
” it’s almost as if the greenhouse effect simply isn’t working in the climate system. I assume it can be demonstrated in a laboratory, but it appears to be impossible to demonstrate in the real world.”
I can think of good reasons for that. I have not seen them discussed here although Sleepalot did bring them up.

First one of the bits of information the Warmists always seem to leave out is that the wavelengths from the sun are higher in energy then the infrared energy from the earth.

The second bit of information is the spread of the wavelengths from the sun vs earthshine: graph

And the third bit is both water, carbon dioxide, methane as well as oxygen and ozone absorb in the solar energy band as well as the earthshine band. This means what ever physics the Warmist claim for Carbon Dioxide’s interaction with the earthshine energy band must also hold true for the solar energy band. graph

Trenbeth in his cartoon shows that solar band atmosphere physics to equate to 67 Wm2 he shows the earthshine as 390 Wm2 and the ‘Back radiation’ physics as 324 Wm2. (note that convection is only 24 Wm2 and latent heat from water change state is only 78Wm2)

Sleepalot looked at temperature and humidity data for a rain forest and a desert. The data indicates that water vapor increases the low temperatures and decreases the high temperatures, effectively smoothing out the daily temperature swings. The diurnal variation is 10C for the high humidity area and 30C for the desert. I looked at sunny days only in the rain forest and found the same. Also when altitude is taken into account the net temperature effect of humidity (and other variables) is to drop the temperature by 8C in the rain forest compared to the desert. link and link So it would seem the water vapor might be blocking a bit more than the 67 Wm2 trenberth is showing.

This graph of the air and ground temperature as recorded during a solar eclipse in the North Africa (desert) shows how fast the earth’s air and surface react to changes in solar energy with no humidity mucking up the works.

As E.M. Smith said

…there are large amounts of gases containing vast numbers of molecules in collision, thereby exhibiting a measurable Temperature, and therefore able to radiate and absorb EM radiation of ANY frequency or wavelength, including the the range from 0.7 microns to 100 microns, commonly referred to as Infra-red….

…. particle Physicists, along with Radio Astronomers; and other Radio Physicists (such as me), are mindful of the fact that accelerated electric charges; aka variable electric currents travelling any non zero distance must radiate EM waves as shown eons ago, by the likes of Heinrich Hertz, and James Clark Maxwell.

Spector brings up an interesting point as shown in this graph.

davidmhoffer? also brought up the point that even if the global temperature did increase by 1C it would not be a uniform increase across the earth. And then there is Willis’ Thunderstorm Thermostat Hypothesis that makes a joke out of Trenberth’s measly 24Wm2 for thermals (Think Hadley cell, Ferrel cell, and Polar cell as well as thunderstorms, tornadoes and hurricanes)
It is our attitude toward free thought and free expression that will determine our fate. There must be no limit on the range of temperate discussion, no limits on thought. No subject must be taboo. No censor must preside at our assemblies.

–William O. Douglas, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1952

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