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Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work

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Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
12-01-2009, 02:54 PM
Post: #1
ajmplanner Offline
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Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
Dr, Peter Landesman, expert in solving the kinds of complex equations Climate Models use, explains why these equations, and therefore the models, can't possibly be used to predict the future .

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/t..._warm.html
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12-02-2009, 04:38 AM
Post: #2
HarpoSpoke Offline
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RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
Thanks ajmplanner.
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01-17-2010, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 01-17-2010 02:41 PM by blouis79.)
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blouis79 Offline
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RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
Agree the math of climate models (General Circulation Models) is presently broken. That doesn't mean they can't be fixed over time. Curious to know what data and forumulae have been put in the models to date. Haven't seen anyone much writing about that yet.

Wikipedia article on climate models has links to several, some downloadable.

Even IPCC commented that GCMs should be exercised on weather prediction. Funny that the warmists say weather prediction is beneath them.
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01-17-2010, 02:48 PM
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Sunsettommy Offline
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RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
(01-17-2010 02:34 PM)blouis79 Wrote:  Agree the math of climate models (General Circulation Models) is presently broken. That doesn't mean they can't be fixed over time. Curious to know what data and forumulae have been put in the models to date. Haven't seen anyone much writing about that yet.

Wikipedia article on climate models has links to several, some downloadable.

Even IPCC commented that GCMs should be exercised on weather prediction. Funny that the warmists say weather prediction is beneath them.

I would think they will learn to discern future trends in a general way,but I am not confident they will be able to overcome the inherent chaotic patterns of the climate that weather is spawned from.
It is our attitude toward free thought and free expression that will determine our fate. There must be no limit on the range of temperate discussion, no limits on thought. No subject must be taboo. No censor must preside at our assemblies.

–William O. Douglas, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1952
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01-18-2010, 07:51 AM
Post: #5
blouis79 Offline
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RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
The Comunity Climate System Model is open sourced with fully downloadable input data and code.

I am having trouble finding a description of what maths/physics is encoded in the model....

Theoretically, it could be run on a distributed grid of computers so organised individuals can have a play with inputs and see outputs.
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01-20-2010, 03:39 PM
Post: #6
Derek Offline
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RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
(01-18-2010 07:51 AM)blouis79 Wrote:  The Comunity Climate System Model is open sourced with fully downloadable input data and code.

I am having trouble finding a description of what maths/physics is encoded in the model....

No surprises there then.
I think my understanding of what is modelled will be quite close to the models you mention...........
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety)
by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken.

The hobgoblins have to be imaginary so that
"they" can offer their solutions, not THE solutions.
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01-22-2010, 02:41 PM
Post: #7
blouis79 Offline
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RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
Even NASA Model E is fully downloadable code and data but once again hard to find a clear description of what it is.
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/modelE/

http://climateprediction.net/ is using grid computing to run model simulations - many experiments in the works.
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01-27-2010, 02:23 AM
Post: #8
blouis79 Offline
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RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
This paper on superparameterized cloud models has a clear description of the physics formulae.
Also mentions how it is computationally infeasible to run the global cloud model with sufficient resolution to get an accurate idea of cloud feedback.
ftp://eos.atmos.washington.edu/pub/breth...-JAMES.pdf
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01-29-2010, 07:23 AM
Post: #9
Sunsettommy Offline
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RE: Why the Mathematics Of Climate Change Models Can't Work
The problem with all these modeling runs is how to verify it.
It is our attitude toward free thought and free expression that will determine our fate. There must be no limit on the range of temperate discussion, no limits on thought. No subject must be taboo. No censor must preside at our assemblies.

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